Alexandria Gazette & Daily Advertiser

LATE ENGLISH NEWS,
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HOUSE OF LORDS,
Thursday. July 6.

Lord Dacre presented a petition from her majesty, which expressed her extreme regret that her former petition had not been received. She had now to state, that she had received a copy of the bill brought into the house, which appeared to be founded only on written papers, and that no witnesses had been examined. Her majesty also complained that no list of witnesses had been presented to her, and was anxious to enter her solemn protest against the proceedings which had been instituted, and to pray that she might be heard by her counsel.

After some objection on the part of the lord chancellor, it was agreed that the queen's counsel should be called in, to ascertain upon what points they wished to address the house.

Mr. Brougham then appeared at the bar, and expressed the strong objections of the queen to the mode which had been adopted of proceeding by a secret investigation ; and that the report of the committee, which was founded on no evidence, was calculated to prejudge the cause of her majesty. He lamented that her majesty had not been heard the preceding night, as it was his intention to have contended that a bill ought not to have been introduced,and, that he had strong and weighty matters to object against the bill being now proceeded with.

The counsel then withdrew; and, after some debate. it was determined that the queen's counsel should be again called in, but that they should be instructed to confine themselves to the mode and time of proceedings. Counsel having been called in, and informed by the lord chancellor to the above effect--

Mr. Brougham commenced his address,by expressing his regret that he was confined and tied down to this one point only, namely, the time and manner in which they were to proceed with this specific bill; for he was not prepared to propose any fanciful or new mode of proceeding, such as that the bill should be read a third time before it was committed. He could understand that he might argue the time of proceeding to the second reading of this bill, but nothing else; and if he did so, it might be said that it was not for the counsel to attempt to direct the house as to the mode of proceeding. But the question of time was an important one ; and her majesty had informed her counsel to call for no delay at all. but is ready to enter at once upon her defence this evening, if they could, or to-morrow : and let them also proceed to prove the report and the strange preamble of the bill that very night, or next day. What, therefore, he had to ask was, that the queen should not be injured by having this bill hanging over her; he therefore had to ask that the bill should either be thrown out. or at all events, read a second time immediately, in order to go as speedily as possible to the examination of the charges.

He was bound to believe that some of the dicta given out of doors had had influence on that house ; and it had been said that she was to be dealt with as the lowest in the realm. God grant that she had been the humblest, and not the highest: she would then have had no proceedings against her, because she would have been fenced round by the triple shield of British justice. Then the bill of divorce and of pains and penalties could not have been brought against her, until the verdict of a jury had gone against her by twelve honest, conscientious and impartial Englishmen, at whose door the influence of the other party might have flagitated for ages before one single particle of it could have entered. He was bound to suppose that their lordships had decided that there could be no impeachment, from the color of the transactions, or they would not have made themselves acquainted with the evidence in case in which they might soon be called upon to judge. This. in justice to the consistency of their lordship's proceedings, he was bound to believe ; but how could he tell that her majesty, when sailing about the Mediterranean with this person, adultery might have been committed in Gibraltar, or in Malta, or in some other of the king's dominions, which might render an impeachment necessary. He took it for granted that the house had made up its mind that no impeachment should be laid for adultery on board a king's ship.

The lord chancellor said, the house could not suffer counsel to assume any thing as to the course of proceeding it had pleased to adopt ; the house might, if it pleased, hear such observations, but he would not sit on the woolsack and hear them.

Mr. Brougham said, no power under Heaven should prevent him from attempting to do his duty to his illustrious client; but he might be put down : there was no resisting power; yet he knew their lordships were wont to be just.

The lord chancellor--"The house is just when it makes an order to point out the course which counsel should pursue."

Mr. Brougham then continued-- He asked for the immediate second reading of this bill, in order that it might be instantly thrown out. He had a right to assume that public justice, or whoever was the party for whom the attorney general was to friend, could be not unprepared to bring forward their witnesses, for public justice must have foreseen the necessity of bringing forward witnesses on charges examined into in March, 1819, on a bill brought into that house in July, 1820.- But the attorney general being the counsel for the crown, he had a right perhaps to consider the king's ministers were the parties against him and his client; and they ought now to be at the bar with him, instead of sitting in judgment in that house. Ministers would never have surely offered her fifty thousand pounds a year if they had believed one-tenth part of the charges against her. -

He then proceeded with his argument against any further delay in this proceeding; and implored the house to mark the painful situation in which the Queen was placed. Various steps have been adopted, all tending to stigmatise her-and a sentence inflicted before it was passed, or even before evidence had been heard against her. She therefore tho't she had a right to complain that the first step towards her trial was to deprive her of the privilege of our law. that all were innocent till proved otherwise. From all violence and oppression, from every species of party feeling, her majesty now appealed to that house.

They were now trying her by bill; and might soon have to try her by impeachment; but she appealed to them for justice, and she knew she would not have to appeal in vain, since the house was composed of the most illustrious peers, both spiritual and temporal, in Europe.

Mr. Denman said he was at a loss to know how to address the house, since the orders of the house so much differed from the instructions he had received from his royal client. Upon the question of time, however, he could have no difficulty in stating, that the wish of her majesty was, that this proceeding should be brought to a speedy and complete termination. She therefore desired, that within these twenty-four hours, she may be enabled to meet her accusers, whoever they may be. It was impossible, he apprehended, that the secret committee could have come to its report, without evidence before them ; and, therefore, it could not be difficult immediately to produce those witnesses ; and for the accuser to proceed to prove his charges. He trusted that he was not guilty of disrespect, when he said, that he found in all their lordships' proceedings against the Queen no analogy to those of courts of justice ; but nevertheless that illustrious lady called on the house to suffer her to meet her accusers. They were told by the bill, that that with which she was charged had been continued for six years ; why then were not these charges made before? In ordinary cases of divorce it was customary to inquire what had been the moral conduct of the husband; and even if that had been correct, there might be an abandonment on his part, which would deprive him of the remedy he sought for. She. however, waived all claim to such enquiry, in order to see at once, at the bar, all that her accusers could bring against her. The names of all the evidence in every criminal case were endorsed on the back of the bill presented to the grand jury; they were examined on oath in open court ; and was her majesty to be the only person in the land who was denied the right and justice? All former cases of this kind had been attempted to be justified on grounds of state necessity ; but if that had been the case in the present instance, would it have been allowed to sleep over six years? There was no spurious issue, or probability of any, charged to make it a matter of state necessity in this case. Her humble and distinct supplication is, that all the evidence in the green bag, should be communicated to herself and the public ; for she was convinced. the more they were sifted the more false they would be shewn to be. He entreated that her majesty should, as in the lowest courts of all, have in that (the highest) the power of vindicating her conduct at the bar of that house, by overwhelming the witnesses against her ; and by shewing that all the duties of man and wife had been violated as with respect to her. It had been said that this was but a bill of divorce, and not of pains and penalties; but he knew of no heavier pain, no severer penalty, than to be hurled from the highest rank in life to a pit of infamy ; and that too by the report of a secret tribunal.

The earl of Liverpool said, the question was put by the learned counsel, whether they would proceed to the second reading immediately, or to put it off for the ends of substantial justice. He could assure the house that no unnecessary delay should take place in the progress of the bill; but on Monday next he should fix the day or the second reading. He, therefore, moved, that the house be summoned for that day.

Lord Holland said, the illustrious Person asked for immediate inquiry ; and this being the nature of acts or attainder, and bills of Pains and Penalties, in all such cases delay is extremely unusual; the noble Lord could not therefore, call on them - to delay proceedings simply on the nature of the bill.

The Earl of Liverpool admitted that this was a Bill of Pains and Penalties, but not a bill of Divorce : one of the relief of the State, if it was aggrieved, and not one from a private individual, praying for redress.- It would be absurd to think that they were to bring on the examination of the witnesses at seven o'clock to-morrow.

Earl Grey said, he saw no reason why they should not proceed to-morrow as well as on Monday, and he moved accordingly.

Earl Darnley also wished that the House should proceed to-morrow. He also implored Ministers to defer the Coronation for the present.

After a few words from Lord Belhaven, the House divided; for Lord Liverpool's motion, that the House be summoned for Monday 55; against it 19; majority 37.-

Adjourned.

Friday, July 7.

The new Insolvent Debtors Bill went through a Committee. A clause proposed by Lord Auckland, that three Commissioners should preside in the Court, instead of one, was agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Thursday, July 6.

Mr. Howorth read a report of the proceedings in the house of lords on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings relative to the Queen.

Lord Castlereagh then rose to explain the course he was about to pursue, but it was objected that another motion took precedence of his lordship's.

THE MILAN COMMISSION.

Sir R. Ferguson then rose to bring forward his motion on the subject of the Milan Commission. From a review of the conduct pursued by Ministers towards the Queen, he said it was manifest that her majesty's great crime was landing in England, or immediately on that event taking place the green bag was produced. As the house of commons had refused to open that bag, he could only speak of its contents from conjecture and report. This bag, he said originated with the Vice-Chancellor of England who had sent out a gentleman practising in his Court, to Milan, whose principal recommendation seemed to be, that he understood no language but his own. This Gentleman had collected a number of facts and put them together in a bag.

He (Sir R. Ferguson) strongly objected to this mode of collecting evidence: he also complained of the appointment of a secret committee, and of the bill which condemned her majesty unheard. This Milan Commission, he said, had cost the country 35,000l. of which sum 11,000 was expended in the first five months--a sum sufficient to have destroyed the character of any man or woman in Italy. The gallant General concluded by moving for a copy of the commission and instructions issued for taking the depositions on the Continent, since her majesty's departure from England, and the sums expended. and by whose order issued.

Lord Castlereagh must express his strong sense of surprise and regret, at the speech of the Honorable Gentleman, (Mr. Creevey.) in which he had thought, proper to make a personal attack on the Sovereign. Such epithets no man was entitled to apply to that illustrious personage ; for to no one could they be less applicable. Nothing could be less vindictive than the conduct of his majesty. He (Lord C.) would now refer to the message from the throne, which he intended to have done in the earlier part of the evening. In the House of Commons, the question, he thought, should be kept open, and in a suspensive, not in a concluded state. Though the House of Lords would probably send down a bill to that house, yet by possibility, the bill might be thrown out in the other House. He should move, that the order of to-morrow, for resuming the adjourned debate, be postponed to the 15th of August, when, if the House was not sitting, as there was no likelihood, it would become a lapsed Order.

Sir M. W. Ridley said, that the question before the House was not a private but a public one; and, according to his view, the parties were the public on the one hand, and the Queen on the other. He regretted that the address to the Queen had not been acted upon. But ministers had acted wrong in recommending a compromise, if they thought the charges against the Queen well founded. Was it consistent with justice to keep a second court of inquiry hanging over the Queen, should she be acquitted by the first ? He should move, that the first Order be discharged.

Lord Castlereagh stated, that no criminal proceedings could be founded on the green bag that had been laid on the table.

Mr. Bennet stated, that the country would go along with the sentiments that had been delivered by his honorable friend, (Mr. Creevey) and the ministers were bound to stand up for the character of their master ; as by their advice, he had entered into a compromise with a woman against whom such odious accusations had been brought.-- One however, of the ministers differed on this subject from his colleagues ; for the right hon. gentleman Opposite ( Mr. Canning) had declared that his attachment to the Queen was still unabated, which could not possibly be the case if he believed her guilty of the crimes imputed to her. (Hear hear!)-this honorable friend (the member for Winchelsea) had in his possession a document, by the late Mr. Whitbread, recommending to the Queen not to leave the country ; but she had preferred the advice of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Canning), and that was the cause of all that had taken place. Her opponent was the King, who had a direct influence in the other house by means of ribbons and garters.

Lord Castlereagh rose to order as it was contrary to the rules of that House to introduce the name of the sovereign into the debate.

Mr. Bennet resumed. The people looked to the fearful odds against the Queen, and they had unanimously taken her part. He would vote for the motion of his hon. friend.

After some conversation on the part of Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Tierney and the Speaker, the order for taking the king's message into consideration was discharged.

Friday. July 7.

Mr. Beaumont gave notice, that he should, on Tuesday, move an address to his majesty, praying he would be graciously pleased to postpone his coronation for the present on account of the pending inquiry into the conduct of the Queen.

Lord Castlereagh said, it was his intention to have proposed the postponement of the coronation, though that intention did not at all arise out of any circumstances relative to the Queen.

Lord Castlereagh said, that the information asked could not be consistently given at present, The commission was sent out in consequence of information which ministers had received from the Continent and which they could not pass over without enquiry.

He defended the conduct of the Vice-Chancellor and of the Gentleman who was actually sent to Italy, and complimented the purity of his manners (a laugh). He should be ready to give every information when the proper period arrived.- After some further observations he moved the previous question.

Mr. Creevey contended that the present was the right time for bringing forward this motion. The House had a right to have the Vice Chancellor before them, as a disturber of the peace: as but for such intermeddling, the whole of the differences might have been settled. It was the officious Mr. Leach that had kept these unhappy differences alive, and the vindictive spirit of the King. (Order, order, order.)-Ministers had negociated with the Queen at St. Omer's, and afterwards in London, after they had been in possession of these most serious charges.

The King was to be put in the same state as any other man who applied for a divorce: To be entitled to that remedy, the King must come with clean hands into Court--(Order )--on such an occasion. It would be necessary to employ the words of the author of Christianity. in the case of the woman taken in adultery, "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone."

Many were apprised of facts, that but for the present enquiry would have gone with them to the grave. On the first night that the message came down, he had warned the House that the discussion would go to shake the morals of the country.

The previous question was then carried, without a division.