Virginia Argus

Extract from evidence of the British Orders, delivered before the English Parliament.

(Continued.)

(Shakespeare Phillips’ evidence concluded.)

Is not a great part of the cotton employed in your manufacture the produce of the U. States of America? The greater part.

Had you diminished your trade to the United States of America in consequence of the French decree in 1806? No.

You have stated that you have diminished your orders for goods to be sent to America. Has the price of those goods declined in Lancashire? Very greatly indeed.

When you spoke of the rates of insurance, did you mean the rates of insurance on vessels bound from England to America? I did.

Is this reluctance to ship since the orders of council also common to your neighbors in Manchester; is it a general thing? I believe universally: I know the great majority of houses there will not ship a single package.

Have you not known several instances when a reduction in the prices of those goods you are speaking of, have been as great as at present? I never knew the price of goods so low as at present.

Mr. George Palmer.

Can you state the particulars of the extent to which your house does business?

We have shipped in the course of the last three years, in one article alone, which is British printed and dyed cotton, 5,688,287 running yards.

Can you give this house any idea of the total value of goods exported by you to America? It rather exceeds, probably, on an average, 800,000l. sterling a year.

If the American embargo were removed, and the orders in council were to continue in force, as at present, would your house continue to ship as formerly to America? By no means.

Have you shipped as formerly to America, since the orders of council? We have not shipped or purchased one single piece of goods.

Suppose the orders in council were revoked, would you resume your shipments to America? Yes if they were revoked, we should commence our shipments.

Suppose the orders in council were revoked, and suppose the embargo in America were still to continue, would you resume your former shipments to America?

We should not be able to obtain our remittances for our goods, and therefore could not resume our shipments to any extent.

Suppose the orders of council were at an end to-morrow, what would you do in shipping goods to America? I should recommence our shipments to the full extent, under the expectation that the embargo in America would be taken off.

I apprehend I might have been misunderstood in my answer to that before, that is my idea.

Although you had not heard of the American embargo being taken off, yet if you heard that the orders in council were taken off in this country would you resume your shipments? Yes. I would under the impression that the embargo would be taken off.

I think you stated that the house you represent have exported goods to the amount of 300,000l. per annum? Yes, we have.

When did that exportation decrease?

We have not shipped or purchased a piece of goods, since the orders in council.

Do you not suppose that the American embargo, which you say has deterred you from shipping, may have deterred other houses from shipping? It is the orders in council have deterred us from shipping.

Alexander Glennie.

You have received from the continent remittances on American account to the amount of half a million sterling in the year? We have.

Do you believe there is any house in this country which receives remittances to an equal or greater amount than the house you are engaged in? Yes, I believe there are houses in London; there certainly is one house in London, a member of this honorable house, who receives much more than we do.

Are you aware of the articles which furnish the funds from whence those remittances from the continent are made? Chiefly sugar and coffee.

I think you say that American vessels going direct from this country to the enemies ports were stopped? Yes, I have understood so.

At what period did that begin? I cannot answer that with any precision.

Was that before the orders in council? Yes, I believe that such a thing took place soon after the decree of the 21st of Nov. 1806, but all that were stopped in that way were soon afterwards released, though they were known to come from this country.

Mr. William Bell.
Do you export manufactures on your own speculation to America? Never.
Suppose the American embargo were removed, and the orders in council still continue in force, would you export to America? Certainly not.
State your reason. Because I conceive they could not pay us who do not consume a sufficient quantity of American produce to pay for more than one third of the manufactured goods exported from this country to that; without the market of the continent they would never be able to pay us.
Then I am to understand, that if the embargo were taken off, if the orders in council continued, you would not ship to America, partly because you could not receive American produce here, and partly because American produce could not go to the continent? I could receive American produce here.
Then your reason is, that American produce could not go to the continent? Yes; the glut here would be so great that it would not pay the freight.
Do you mean to say, that the value would be little or nothing of what would come here in consequence of the glut? Trifling I conceive.
Would the certainty of receiving this produce from America, by the removal of the embargo, be any inducement to you to ship goods for America? Certainly no; I should not like to engage in it at all.
Have you written to your correspondent in America, respecting shipments of American produce to be sent to this country? I have.
To what effect have you written? I have written, that should America think proper, notwithstanding those orders in council, to trade with this country, to suspend for the present all business.
Why did you give that advice to your correspondent? For the reasons I have just stated, that the produce they would send in return, would not net anything at all: I conceive that I should even get myself into debt by paying the charges.
Supposing the American embargo, which at present forbids the exportation from America to the continent of this country, were removed as to this country, but not as to the continent? I could ship more if the embargo was removed betwixt America and the continent, because I consider the consumption of American produce greater on the continent than what it is here: I might therefore venture to ship more, because I believe I could still have remittances from the continent; I have had some very lately.
Do you conceive that not only the conveying American produce to the continent, but even the conveying goods of the W. Indian colonies by the American ships, is necessary to their paying for the manufactures of this Country? I conceive it is absolutely necessary.
You have stated, that you conceived, that if these orders in council should continue, the glut would be so great you would not pay the freight; from whence do you draw the opinion that these orders in council will entirely preclude the exportation of American produce, and those commodities which generally are received through America, from the continent? I know of no method whatever of getting tobacco to the continent of Europe: there has been shipped from the United States annually 75,000 hogsheads: England consumes 14 or 15,000 annually only; the rest have been sent to the continent, and the proceeds remitted to England for the payment of bills; therefore I calculate if those 75,000 are thrown into the English market, and no outlet, the glut would be so great as not to pay the freight.
Why do you conceive there would be no outlet? At present I have not been able to discover any: the decrees of the French, together with the orders in council, cross each other and shut every thing up in the place it stands; it appears to me impossible to move. I cannot send a shilling's worth to any place.
Do you not believe that the wants of the continent, for such an article as tobacco, will probably force the continent to receive tobacco even thro' the medium of this country? I am very much afraid it will on the contrary induce them to grow a sufficient quantity for their own consumption.
In point of fact, since the months of September and October, have you from any circumstances or information whatever been led to conclude that the ports of Holland have been so completely shut against American ships as that you could not suffer them to go thither? I should never have hesitated to send forward American ships as they arrived, had it not been for that order in council; if we had not enforced the register of the shipments, I should have continued to send them on as usual, and I have no doubt they would have been admitted.
Mr. Thomas Martin,
What were the premiums on American risks in summer from Liverpool to America, in the summer of 1806? Two guineas per cent. and two and a half per cent. in the summer of 1806,
In the winter? In the winter three guineas per cent. and sometimes four.
And in 1807 what were the same premiums? They were much the same as in 1806; the summer were two and a half, and the winter three and sometimes four guineas.
When did the news of the Berlin decree of the 21st November, 1806, reach Liverpool? On or before the 11th December, 1806.
Do you remember to have effected an insurance to America on the 13th of that month? Yes; my house effected an insurance on an American risk on the 13th of that month, that was from America to Liverpool.
At what premium did you effect that insurance? At three guineas per cent.
So that there was an immediate or temporary rise after the knowledge of the Berlin decree came to Liverpool? There was.
How long did this rise continue? In January following an insurance was effected on a vessel to America at five guineas per cent. but this was to a small amount, and on the 13th of February following an insurance was effected on the same vessel at three guineas per cent.
Being the same premium as in the former year before the Berlin decree? Yes, it was.
What is the general difference in almost all years, between premiums on American voyages in summer risks? The difference is one or one and a half per cent.
The falling off of the manufactures from Liverpool, at the spring shipments, is in your opinion owing to the orders in council? It is in my opinion principally owing to the orders in council.
Will you state whether the shipments in the fall of 1807, had not fallen off considerably, as compared with the fall shipment in 1806? Certainly not; and I doubt whether they were not very nearly, if not quite as much as those of 1806; but if they had fallen off, it was by no means considerably.
When you state these reasons which would prevent your shipping goods to America, do you not take into your consideration at all, that a merchant exporting goods from this country would for his return for those goods from America; and do not you think that the embargo in America might operate to prevent his shipping them there? If I am desired to give an opinion on that subject, it is precisely this: we know as matter of fact that the embargo was laid in December; the question for a merchant in this country, shipping goods to America, is, how long it is probable that embargo will continue: if it is likely to continue for a great length of time, he will be the less induced to send goods, and if for a short time, he will be induced to send out goods; the orders in council having taken place, I conceive that an effectual bar is put to sending goods, for he will infer (at least that is the case with myself) that the embargo will be prolonged by the orders in council.
You conceive that, though you know the embargo was laid on without any knowledge of the orders in council? I conceive it was known in America for nine or ten days before the laying on of the embargo, that provisions equivalent to the orders of council were intended and determined upon by the British government nine or ten days.
What is your source of knowledge upon that subject? On the 12th of November I wrote a circular letter to my American correspondents, which letter was received out on the 12th or 13th of December; but I believe the 12th of December, in which I stated, 'It is strongly reported, that it is the intention of our government to extend the system of blockade to France and the respective states on the continent under her influence, prohibiting from entrance into any of their ports all vessels whatever, except such as have last cleared from G. Britain or her dependencies.' I have received advice, that one of the vessels by which this circular letter went, arrived on the 12th, or not later than the 13th of December.
Shakespeare Phillips called in again.
Had you any occasion to insure goods to America, in the way of your business, in January, 1807? I had.
Was that early in January? I cannot exactly state; I should rather think about the middle of January.
What premium did you pay for that insurance? Five guineas per cent.
Did you consider that an increased premium? Certainly.
Increased how much? The usual winter premium from England to the United States is three guineas per cent: two to three.
And the summer premium? The summer premium two guineas.
How long did this increase of premium from three to five guineas per cent last? A very short time.
A fortnight? I should rather think not a week.
So that before the end of the month of January, 1807, the premium had fallen back to its usual rate? Yes. we effected insurance at three guineas, in, I should think, less than a fortnight after we had effected that at five guineas.
In the same year did you effect any insurances in August? Yes.
At what premium? Two guineas per cent.
What were the premiums in July and August, 1806? I conceive two guineas; but I cannot precisely answer that question, it is so long since.
You do not conceive that in July and August, 1807, you paid higher than the ordinary premium? Certainly not. I never knew it lower to the United States.
Since July and August, 1807, have you had any occasion to effect any insurances in the year 1807? Yes, I effected some small insurances in the year 1807, from the U.S to England, and they were, I believe, at two per cent.
(To be continued.)